Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Everyone loves hearing a good story. Maybe that's why podcasting has become such a big thing. So many people have picked up the microphone to share their voices, opinions, and experiences with a wider audience. But it's more than just personal expression. Podcasting connects people, and it can work as a bridge for groups that are underserved by traditional media.
I'm Kelsey Arnott, and you're listening to the Community Podcast initiative. The goal of the CPI is to produce and promote podcasting as a way to amplify underrepresented voices through audio storytelling. This initiative is based out of Mount Royal University, which is located on treaty seven territory.
If you went to university, you probably did a lot of weekly reading assignments. But what if you got to listen to podcasts instead? In this episode, we're looking at how listening to podcasts could become an alternative to weekly reading assignments in university classrooms. CPI co director Meg Wilcox uses listening assignments in her podcasting workshop course here at Mount Royal University and is currently studying how students feel about them compared to assigned readings. In January, Meg and I sat down with some journalism and digital media students to discuss whether they feel assigned listenings influenced their learning. But before we dive into their thoughts, Meg is joining me to break down her research and what an assigned listening is. Meg, thanks for joining me.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: So your students have their own interpretations of assigned listenings, but I'm curious, as the creator and implementer of these assignments, how do you define an assigned listening?
[00:02:02] Speaker B: I mean, I think I'm really just seeing it as an adapted way of, as you pointed out, like the traditional reading, right? That you would normally be given something to read over the week or, you know, before your next class and come in and be ready to talk about it. But because I teach podcasting, I thought, why would I have them read about podcasts? That doesn't make sense for the students. So the other thing is, I sort of thought about it a bit as almost like an intro english course, right? That maybe you don't know the canon yet, that if you're new to a subject, you might listen to podcasts, but you might not know a lot about them. So I wanted to create a curated list, almost a playlist, that each week we listen to a different show, that's in this case, specifically a storytelling podcast. And there's a different reason why we'd listen to each episode. There'd be the set episode and show each week with some guided questions, two or three questions that the students are supposed to consider and answer in just a short reflection after they listen to the piece. So in that sense, it's very similar to, say, an assigned reading, except the difference is how you go about it. And then, you know, the students would submit that before class. And every class, we would actually start with a discussion. So you don't just submit it and then get feedback from me. We'll actually talk in a group about those key questions, any other questions they might have around the listening, and just a chance to enjoy and talk about our favorite parts or things that we didn't like and enjoy it and have fun with it. When you think about listening to stories, should be fun. And so it kind of would set the tone for the class as well.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Kind of just dipping your toes into podcasting and thinking critically about them a.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Little bit and being able to understand a bit the world around it.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Right.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: I mean, in ten weeks, ten episodes, there's no way you're going to understand all of podcasting, for sure. Storytelling or podcasts that are based in storytelling, I think a bit more the case, right. You start to learn sort of the key ones and what's involved, but then students can leave feeling a bit more confident about what they might want to listen to, how they could go about finding new things. And also, yeah, as you pointed out, being critical in what questions maybe you should ask as you are listening to something.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Definitely part of that. You're also conducting research on the effectiveness of weekly listening assignments versus weekly readings. Tell me about your research and what you're hoping to explore with it.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah, this was not a project that I'd originally thought I would do. What I found when I started this class in 2017 is at the end, you talk to students about what they liked, and almost consistently and absolutely anecdotally, students said, oh, my favorite part was the assigned listenings. And I thought, we've just created a podcast series from scratch that is going to go out on the Internet and anyone can listen to it. And you're more excited about the homework. That struck me as kind of weird. And so, as most researchers would do, my thought is, well, first off, is this actually true? So let's find out if it is true and if so, why. And so that's sort of what started this project. And so I'm using sort of three sources of data to better understand if students do, in fact, prefer it.
If so, why? And that sort of comes through, first off, just in submission rates. So we know that students aren't always great about doing their readings or engaging, and even if there are marks assigned. It may or may not happen. I've found ever since I've started these assignments, really good. And by that I mean high submission rates. That out of ten a semester, the average student completes eight or more. So part of this is I'm looking at submission rates. Like, are students consistently doing it? That's a sign. I would say, that they probably like it or wanna do it because the grades they get for it are about 2% an assignment. So that means that you can miss a few. It's not really going to overly hurt your grade. You definitely need to keep them. But it's not that I'm scaring students with grades to make them do it. The other side that I've started doing over the last couple of years now is surveying students about the assigned listings. So at two points in the semester, students will complete a short survey about how they feel about the podcasts, what maybe their favorite one has been, and what they're finding that they're getting out of it. And I also ask how they listen. You know, are you sitting at your computer with the link? Are you on your phone? Are you out doing other things? We always encourage students to be able to do that. So just getting a better idea of where they do it, and the students get a mark for submitting that, and then they can choose to have their data put in for the research project as well. And then the last part to sort of triangulate. This is what we'll be hearing today, which is part of a focus group, and there have been a couple of focus groups so far. And so, you know, this is really just trying to get a bit more data and understanding from those submission rates and what I'm seeing from the surveys on a broader scale that, you know, how, first off, do students like the podcast more? Why do they, how do they engage with podcasts differently than readings? And also, what are they learning that's different? What are they getting from podcasts that they might not be getting from other, maybe more traditional resources?
[00:06:44] Speaker C: Mm hmm.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Well, thanks for explaining all of that, Meg.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Now let's go to the focus groups with students Emma Miller, Sean Gallanders, and Ava Freeh.
[00:07:02] Speaker D: Thinking a bit about the.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Structure of the assignment. It's like an assigned reading, but not quite because you're listening. There are guided questions that come with it. Would you say that that's typical from what you would normally get with your assigned readings in school?
Like normally, would a professor give you a reading and say, please answer these four questions? And so did you find that it sort of, structure wise, was similar or different?
[00:07:22] Speaker E: In some ways? Yeah, I've kind of experienced it both ways. Kind of like how? Like, you know, like, you get this reading and then you get assigned a few questions and you kind of just answer them. Maybe you like, kind of like in a short answer form or others, like, it may be like a specific prompt and you write a longer reflection about it. So I've kind of. I've kind of gone both ways as to experiencing that, and I find that it kind of still worked really well with the assigned listenings.
[00:07:53] Speaker D: I'm not sure about you guys, but for myself, I find for an assigned reading, I'm more inclined to read through the questions first, or even read through the first question and then answer it and then read the second question and then answer it. Whereas with the podcast, I found I didn't actually even look at the questions until I had listened to it because I felt like I got a more in depth understanding by just absorbing it without the influence of what the questions might be. Because I think in that case, whether I wanted to or not, it would have been easy to kind of tune out other things and just listen for what the questions were asking for. And I think that's easy to do in a reading because you kind of, you can point spot key words or whatever, like, it's easier to pick that up. But, yeah, I guess that would be a big difference for me.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: That is so interesting because I never, I always assumed that students would read the questions first before listening and that it would tune their ear to what it was. So you said that you just went straight into the story, went into the topic, and then afterwards sort of considered it.
[00:08:53] Speaker D: Yeah. Because I also think especially what makes it different about the reading is you can kind of skim through a reading and be like, okay, this is what it might. Am I even interested in it or is it intriguing to me or am I excited to read it? Whereas with the podcast, besides the title and maybe the little, like, the subheading or synopsis, you don't really know what you're listening to. So I was actually really excited to listen to a lot of them and just kind of absorb all of it. And then I was like, okay, well, now I can go. And I feel like I have a rooted understanding of what I'm now answering.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: I was the complete opposite. I read the questions first, and that definitely helped me kind of, like, guide along in a way, but it kind of helps keep me on track a bit more. So, like, when I get an assigned reading with multiple questions. I find it harder to, to even intake the reading itself in a way. But with this, I was able to kind of see what I'm looking for, listen to the whole thing, and then if I need to go back to specific parts, I found it much easier to actually intake the information, and I could also do something else at the same time while I was listening to it. So it kind of pacified me in a ways because I find when I'm doing my reading, I just get lost a million times and I'm going back, and it just frustrates me.
[00:10:13] Speaker E: Kind of like adding on to that.
I found that with an assigned reading, not only is it oftentimes really dry in terms of content, but it's also just oftentimes, especially these days, the way that the reading is delivered is oftentimes through a scanned PDF and not an actual handout or a book that they have you buy.
I find that style trying to read through that PDF. It's really difficult for me to really just follow along and as opposed to, like, an actual, like, book in my hands because, like, I really do love reading, but I find that, like, trying to just read, like, an excerpt from a scanned PDF or, like, trying to, like, read an e book on, like, my computer, for instance, that's really difficult for me. Oftentimes, like, I would go, I would do that and, like, kind of just read the questions first to kind of just see what I'm after and kind of just, you know, like, kind of just read through the reading and kind of just cherry pick, like, what's relevant to these questions and kind of just leave the rest of the wayside. As opposed to when, like, I've gotten assigned listening a lot of the times when I'm listening to these podcasts, oftentimes I'm doing something else. So, like, one time I think I put on the Invisibilia podcast about kind of just, like, talking about incels and whatnot. And I think at the time, I was at the bus stop waiting to catch the max teal to go to Walmart. So I was just listening to that while I was riding the bus and while I was doing my shopping and that kind of, by the time I was done, I kind of just got into the questions and from there, kind of just felt like I could just really kind of just start without having to just do anything else. Really.
[00:12:04] Speaker D: Do you find that you felt more productive, like, you didn't have to stop your life in order to engage with school related content but you were able to incorporate it into your life.
[00:12:13] Speaker E: Yeah, exactly right. That more nonlinear approach to kind of just absorbing this information, which would have otherwise been pretty dry if it was delivered in like an editorial or a research paper. And I found I just responded to that much better.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: I think back to Shawn's point, the aesthetics of it are major. Like, yeah, like, getting a printout is like hard. A PDF like scan thing is hard to read. And then you're listening to this story on the podcast, and it has good educational background to it, but it's also a whole production. Right. It's beautiful to listen to at the same time, like, you are emotionally engaged with it at the same time.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Like hearing voices of people and telling their story in first person, which is always going to be more interesting than, especially if we think. I think about formats often of academic writing, as they try to make it less personal. And generally that's seen as being a good thing in academics, but less interesting.
[00:13:07] Speaker E: When we want the dirt and the background sound bed also really helps a lot because depending on how the POC has been delivered, it helps you feel like you're also just sitting at the table with them chatting, or you're on the ground with them experiencing this.
[00:13:21] Speaker D: Based on how I mentioned that I didn't read the questions beforehand, I find it's easy to get swayed by what the questions are asking, in a sense of you feel like you have to cater to what maybe the professor's looking for. And I think, again, when you're reading material that's more visual or that is like a handout or an assigned reading, I think it's easier to maybe sway your opinions or not be as transparent with what you think.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: So this was your way of rebelling against my learning outcomes for the class?
[00:13:53] Speaker D: No, no, no, not at all. No, not at all. No, not at all. But I think if anything, it challenged listening to the podcast challenged me to consider what I actually thought about things or what my opinions were. And I think I formed them on my own, or I picked up on things on my own, and sometimes they coincided with what the questions were asking. And other times I was like, oh, no, I just, I really liked that, or that was really interesting, and, or I want to think more about that, or even, you know, I want to seek out other podcasts that talk about that, but listening to it first and not having the opportunity to skim, you have to just dive in and kind of face it head on and be like, well, what do I think of this? And then greet the questions or deliverables.
[00:14:35] Speaker E: After that kind of relates back to my last point, where that very difficult way of absorbing an assigned reading through a scanned PDF or a handout and through reading the questions first, that would ultimately condition me towards skimming through the reading and cherry picking excerpts from that reading to answer that question in kind of a way of like, this is what the assignment wants to hear, this is what the professor wants to hear, as opposed to listening to the podcast first and just diving straight in. That ultimately challenged me to be much more candid and honest about what I actually thought, because I was actually able to absorb the deliverable in its entirety, and I was actually able to form a much more fulsome opinion about the piece.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: I think what I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you see readings a bit more as a tool, that you're getting the information and you'll pick the information you need out of it. But the podcast felt more like an experience that you had. And, I mean, I guess you could have gone to a transcript and tried to cherry pick your answers out of it, but it would have been much harder to do than actually just kind of sitting in and enjoying or listening to the piece, whether or not you.
[00:15:51] Speaker E: Enjoyed it, in my opinion. It's not that. It's, you know, like, it's because, like, it's an assigned reading by itself, right. It's like, for me, it's kind of just like the way that, you know, these readings are given out. Like, if it was actually like, you know, like a proper novel in my hand, I find I would actually, you know, read more of this in its entirety to, you know, kind of form my opinion about that, as opposed to where it's like, if it's this textbook that I hate with a burning passion because I spent $100 on it, or this two page, stapled piece of paper that I'm gonna throw out after I get everything I need out of it anyway.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: The tactile element, right? That something of value, like the physical element, right.
[00:16:33] Speaker D: Or you could go back to it even, like, it's something that exists without you feeling like you now have to keep track of something. Now, I know some profs give you online, like a link to something, but I think maybe the word is the medium that it's delivered on, you know, like Spotify or Apple or however you get your podcast, it seems less. Not professional, but less forced. Or like, you don't have to go on to d two l or you don't have to go on to a library to find it. It's more accessible in daily life because it's delivered on a medium that would be used in daily life.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: It's like friendlier and a bit more familiar, maybe.
[00:17:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Speaker D: I was starting to consider in a written format, I think a lot of the time, especially from an academic standpoint, it is more obviously academic focused. I think the readings that are selected, you know, they're peer reviewed.
There's more criteria that is required of it or is sought after, I think by profess in order to make it applicable or justified, to then give to students. Whereas the podcast, it feels more creative, it feels more subjective, it feels less serious, but almost in a way that I feel like I could learn more because it's not so structured, it's not using professional language all the time. It's not using like, there are words I can understand sometimes in, you know, papers that I'm like googling the, you know, synonym for or like thesaurus for things. I find with assigned listenings, I feel like, and maybe it's because podcasts are ever evolving and they're becoming more and more common. But with readings, I think it would be easy to just recycle. Like, this is the reading, and it's the same reading every single year. And I say that only because I've encountered that just with, whether it be in high school or even now, people saying, oh yeah, I read that when I was in so and so's class, or I read that in whatever, whereas, and it maybe feels like profs aren't engaging with that content in the same way that you are, and you feel like you're just getting like, okay, well, this is what you have to do. And I remember the last time I read it, or maybe I've only read half of it, but I'm getting you to read all of it. Whereas the way that the assigned listenings were delivered, I knew that you had listened to them, and I knew that you had then selected the questions based on listening to them. And I know that that could be the same for an academic paper, but.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: The fact that sometimes you feel that in a class and sometimes you don't, I think, is notable, right? Sometimes you might look at the questions and be like, I guess that could be the questions I'm kind of curious.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Like you talk about.
It's not as academic podcasts, the tone is different, it's not as dry. Do you find kind of going into it, you had more of an open mind listening to them? You were kind of more because it's different I'm just kind of going to embrace it for what is. Instead of having my preconceived notions, that kind of thing.
[00:19:24] Speaker E: Well, it's a lot of that, but there is also some things on the other side where it's like, obviously, there were some podcasts I didn't like as much as others. Like, I didn't care much for the first this american life podcast, but that's also just because I don't really like. I like the stories that they're telling, but I just don't really like the narrator.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: You don't like Ira Glass, one of the most beloved podcasters. And that's okay. I just find that entertaining. That's great.
[00:19:50] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Like, I just.
[00:19:51] Speaker E: It's hard to describe what I don't like about him. I just. There's just something in the way he narrates, there's something in his cadence that just. Where it's really just kind of just like, okay, let's just move this along.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: So, what you're saying, Kelsey? I think. Yeah. Like, back to kind of what Sean was saying, or to bring it full circle again of, like, I feel like a. I'm not being asked to. Now, I know that this is just a requirement of learning in school and university, but I feel like I'm not being asked to go and set aside time to now read through a 25 page document or a ten page document. That's gonna take me an hour. Like, I feel like I can incorporate it into my life. A. So, that makes me more open minded. Two, it's more sensory or more interactive, I feel like. So then I'm more engaged, which makes me, again, more open minded. At least that's what I would say I was actually.
[00:20:39] Speaker C: I'd say I was really receptive to it. Like, I'm the type of person that was always, like, watching Khan academy videos and, like, stuff like that. So I think for those kind of people, that kind of need almost a visual or an audio aspect to intake it, it was so much better, and it gave me a lot less stress, personally.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Kind of, like, more accommodating of that, you know, like, recognizing that not everyone is a sit at my desk, like, read a paper kind of learner.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Yeah, well, it was the most. Like, I've had weekly assignments in a lot of my classes, and I'd say I completed the most for your class. That was the most I've ever even wanted to. Right? Like, it was like. Especially, like, I think the ones that you chose, it was like, I want. Oh, this fun Dolly Parton one. Like, what's this about?
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:21:26] Speaker C: Like sick. And it just makes it fun at.
[00:21:28] Speaker E: The same time of adding onto that this more flexible approach to absorbing the information.
Even if I don't really like certain elements of the podcast itself, kind of just the way that I don't feel obligated to just get this all done in one sitting, I feel much more willing to just get through it anyway on my own time and not feel pressured to just suffer through it, so to speak.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: You mentioned that flexibility and that being kind of, I mean, you told the story about why Walmart earlier, like, listening to it, how when you were listening to them, how did you usually listen to them? Was it at your desk? Was it while you were at the gym or doing something else?
[00:22:10] Speaker E: I found it was pretty different each time. Maybe I'm just playing games on my computer and I just got this on in the background because, for instance, when I'm playing games, I like to listen to a lot of music.
I'll just have Spotify or maybe YouTube on, and I'll just have music playing in the background. The podcast that I need to listen to, you know, like that slots in really well as something I can, you know, listen to and kind of absorb while I'm playing, you know, games, something I enjoy. And also just, you know, just absorbing this important information in the journalism program, you know, like, I really feel like I'm on the go a lot of the time. Like ultimately, like, I function very well in, you know, in chaos like that when I'm locked in, right. But like, not feeling pressured to, you know, sort out like something that may not be as important at the time. It really takes a lot of pressure off me when I'm trying to focus on something more important.
[00:23:09] Speaker D: I would say the same. Like, I listened to it while I got ready for school. I listened to it in the car, I listened to it in the, like in the shower. I'd put it on. I feel like I could list off like twelve different places that I. On a walk, in the gym, on the treadmill. I listened to it kind of anywhere.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: There wasn't really a schedule that you would say or a set way that how you would engage with it?
[00:23:30] Speaker D: No, because I knew I could engage with it whenever I wanted.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: Usually I would do it at my desk. A lot of the times it would be on the way home from school as well. I stretched a lot while I listened to them. Yeah.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Good life choices. I should do that one.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. Did my dishes and stretch most of the time. And I play a little, half the time I play a little game. It just helps. Just help me kind of keep engaged with it and not have something in front of me that's distracting me.
[00:23:58] Speaker D: Back to the whole, like, the comparison between a reading and a podcast is, I found with a reading, it felt like there was more of an objective goal to something that we had to acquire from it. Like they were saying, we want you to learn this from it. Now, I know you're saying some of them were meant to show us good editing or good sound beds or good narration, which, 100%, I think each of them had elements of that, and we discussed that in class. But I found going into it, I wasn't like, okay, now I feel like I have to solve this mystery of what am I supposed to get from this? And if I'm not understanding that, I then feel like I have to spend more time on it, or I'm not learning right, or I'm not understanding it the right way. Whereas it just felt like I could experience it for myself. Think about what I thought of it, rather than feeling like it had to be, this is what I want you to get out of it, but still read it and tell me if you got that out of it, that it.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Was more suggestion than prescription.
[00:24:56] Speaker D: Yeah, it was more like, I find a reading to be a bit more objective, whereas the podcast was more subjective, yet still was able. We were able to apply course material and outcomes and objectives of the course through discussion and through. Because I think also journalism or just learning is creative and it is different for everyone. So being able to listen to something that could be interpreted different to everyone, I think aided in my learning and enhanced it, rather than reading something that was just, this is what it is, this is what it's about, this is what you should get from it. This is what I want you to get from it. But then maybe you're not connecting with it. I think that then it's either discouraging or you feel like maybe wasn't as useful as you'd hoped.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: I think the discussions were also a major part of it. Like, I think I wouldn't have necessarily had be as I love them about it if we wouldn't have had those discussions. I think because it's the same, like you go, you do a weekly reading for a class, you hand it in, they don't really go over it. I think us, everyone in the class kind of discussing their different parts that they found from it. Learning whatever other people like, the different perspectives, was major in understanding them. At the end as well, because I found I left every discussion with a better understanding than I came into.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: That also surprises me because I feel that many students, I mean, I guess there's the advantage that everyone comes in with the ideas that you have, one or two ideas that you can contribute. So even if you don't feel comfortable talking in class, you know, you have something you can talk about, right?
[00:26:32] Speaker C: Well, and you can validate yourself as well in that, like, you find something, you're like, oh, like, I think this is kind of it, right? And then, like, you're like, oh, yeah, this is totally what I was looking for. And you're like, yes. You know, so it's very validating.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: There's like a cycle of feedback that.
[00:26:49] Speaker E: You get kind of adding on to that. Like, I really like the discussions especially because, like, in my opinion, you know, this is a university, not an echo chamber, right? A university is a place where ideas should be presented, challenged, and, you know, like, they should evolve, you know, as they're challenged, right. And, like, like, through these discussions, like, however, in however, a small way, I find, like, other, like, people were presenting their ideas on, you know, the things that these podcasts were presenting. Like, if they were very difficult issues, you know, like, everyone had, like, they either had, like, very similar or, you know, very differing opinions. And, you know, like. And I found that, you know, like, ultimately, like, everyone came out, you know, just learning something more from having this discussion.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: And there's not just one answer either.
[00:27:36] Speaker C: Right?
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Like, and there's a broad range. Just like, how we talk about, like, the stories themselves are subjective, right. One question I wanted to ask, though, is now, as you're sort of talking about the listenings, and I'm also just thinking about your podcast listening habits. Did this class change how you engage with podcasts? And if so, how so? Maybe it's that you're listening to something new. Maybe you listen for edit mistakes and stuff. It could be a lot of things. But I'm curious, how do you feel differently about podcasts if you do?
[00:28:04] Speaker C: Well, I think me and you even discussed this during the semester that halfway through I was a big love island fan and I listened to this, like, crappy little Love island podcast. And I remember before the class being like, oh, yeah, okay, whatever. I'll just put it on. It's fine. But then, like, halfway through, like, I actually, I can't listen to it anymore because it just, like, hurts my soul. It's gotten to the point where I've, like, reached out to them and I'm like, please let me equalize your levels.
[00:28:33] Speaker D: I did.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: I sent them two emails. I was like, I'll do it for free. Just like, let me equalize them. Like, it's killing me. So it's like just saying quality. I think it's major. And I feel like it's also. That translates into our productions ourselves. You get inspired a lot.
[00:28:50] Speaker E: For me. I'm not too much of a big podcast guy in my day to day. Right. I'm very picky about what I choose to watch or listen to. I do very much.
For instance, I really like historical content. I don't know if you've ever watched the armchair historian on YouTube, but he does very nice animated tidbits on history. And I also like podcasts like that. But in general, like, even if I'm not a very big podcast guy, you know, like, these assigned listenings have really kind of just given me a much better appreciation for good narration and, you know, listening to these and kind of just like, listening to these various podcasts that maybe are in, like, maybe very different genres and they all come from different producers and narrators. Right. It gives me a very good sense about, like, what works as a narrator, what doesn't, and, like, what elements I can take from these people and kind of apply it to my own voicing.
[00:29:51] Speaker D: I listened to the odd podcast here and there before the class. I listened to everything is alive a couple times and maybe, like, memory palace here and there. I think since the class has ended, I've almost listened to every single heavyweight episode. I love it. I'm devastated because it's ending.
I actually, I actually honestly shed a tear when he. And I was like, no, because I don't know. I found I got really quite connected to it. I think that's another thing.
You build a connection with the piece rather than just engaging with it and moving on or forgetting about it. But yeah, I found that not only do I listen to more of it, but I'm starting to. To flag other ones that I'm, like, intrigued about. Or I'm starting to write down, like, I really like this, or, I really like that about this one. Or, and I think, too, it has influenced my. I know you talked about this earlier, just how journalism has a degree, but I think the whole point of university is, you know, whether, I mean, maybe if you're in, like, nursing or something, like, yes, it's a linear, like, this is what you're doing, but in something like this, I don't, I didn't, I don't know exactly what I want to do in the field. I don't know exactly what that looks like. And by listening to the podcast, I think I'm like, no, I love storytelling and I love, yeah, the audio aspect and what that holds. And even in myself, I'm like, how can I experiment with that in my day to day? And I take voice memos all the time now. And, you know, I start to, I think, view life in a different way after listening to them. It's a big thing is I like, on New Year's, I took a voice memo of us, like, counting down. Like I was at a gathering and I have this little clip of everyone kind of yelling, like ten, nine. And I've played it for so many people because it just shows such emotion. And I love that it kind of shows, like, I think audio shows a lot more of the human experience. And I love that the engaging with podcast has opened my eyes to that.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: A little bit more, kind of tying back in kind of to that open minded part, right? Like, it's not just going in with an open mind, it's opened your mind to those possibilities and that kind of thing. What situations do you think are better for assigned listening compared to more traditional readings? You kind of mentioned too, like nursing is a very linear degree. So I guess as an example, like, would podcasting work or do assigned listenings work as well in a degree like that, or are they more tailored to other types of degrees?
[00:32:20] Speaker C: For me, I'm a former history major, and I found, like, even in this podcasting class, like, I, like, I did the, I did an Anne Boleyn short pocket doc, and I was using a lot of podcasts not only for inspiration, but for historical information. Like, I just, the way that I take it in better, right? So I think business philosophy, especially those kind of things, they could really benefit from having those podcasts. And I do think we need to take into account that different things work for different people and maybe even having an option, like, especially for the history or reading and in the sign listening in one kind of thing. Like, I think just even breaking it up a little bit and having different ways to take in the information will just increase people's knowledge, kind of, you know, at least that's for me personally, because I find that even now, like, in my classes, I'm going and I'm listening to podcasts about what I'm going into, right? Like, I'm in a european history class right now and I'm doing that.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: So you're sort of choosing it as, like, your extra resources to sort of give you support as you do the other stuff.
[00:33:30] Speaker E: Yeah, kind of adding onto that, like, I think, like, especially in certain gen eds, it would really be beneficial, because one of my gen eds last semester, texan ideas, we were covering a very heavy topic.
We were kind of, over the whole semester, we were covering human suffering. So we were reading things like the Book of Job and the novel silence by Shusaku Endo, and we were also covering the Buddha's four noble truths. And as someone who comes from a catholic background, even if I'm not practicing much anymore, I have read verses from the Bible many times, and I'm used to that other people may not be. And kind of absorbing things like that. Like the Book of Job, which covers very heavy topics that may be beneficial to, you know. Yeah, like, absorbing that. Because, like, even if. Even as someone who's used to it, it's very difficult to, you know, like, read, like, older style English, especially in the King James version of the Bible. And to that end, I find that, like, it may also help others who are maybe more sensitive to more heavy topics. You know, kind of just process that a lot better, because silence. I don't know if you guys have ever read or watched the movie silence, but it's a very upsetting, very depressing story about the persecution of japanese Christians during the shogunate period. We read the book, and we watched the film by Martin Scorsese in class. Right. And that is just a very difficult way to absorb it. Even I had to just look away from the screen a couple times. But kind of just being able to just listen to it on your own time through audio, that would help a lot more for certain people.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: Well, and it's interesting, the individual act of listening. Right. And we've talked about that in class, but that, you know, we can be in class listening to something together. We're all dealing with it separately and internally. That is different than all being around a movie, though. I imagine a class watching of silence sounds absolutely painful and would have been probably better as homework, but also would be challenging on its own. So there's that idea of how you process and engage with. And that was a topic, for example, that I wanted to be homework. I didn't want us to listen in a group, and I didn't want everyone to talk about it immediately.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Because it brings up a lot of feelings and how you feel more about something when you first listen to it might not be what you're gonna say in conversation later. So the ability to have distance. Sometimes before we moderate and have these.
[00:36:04] Speaker E: Conversations, I think that ultimately, having that time to digest what we just listened to or what we just watched ultimately makes a better discussion when we've been able to kind of just clear our heads and kind of just calm down after watching a very difficult thing or listen to a very difficult thing.
[00:36:24] Speaker D: I think I have kind of something to add on to that. Also, tie into you were asking if a nursing student could benefit from listening to podcasts. There's an ability, it's accessible for you to just say, say you listen to something disturbing, or say you want to just have a moment to laugh at what they said. You could just pause it and it stops. And you don't have to.
Yes, you could look away from what you're reading or close the book or whatnot, but it's not as abrupt and there's not as much separation from the content that you could actually take time to digest. I mean, same with a movie. You could pause it and take a moment or consider or think about it. But from the aspect of podcasting, there is that ability to just, like, stop and, you know, hit the, hit the pause button and be like, wait, what do I think of that? Or I don't really like that. Or maybe I need to, you know, not finish this, or I need to take a step back, whatever it is. And with that, I wanted to tie in because I was thinking about emotion, and then you talked about, you know, feelings and how a lot of the time podcasts do evoke a lot of emotion. I think that that would be something that would be really beneficial for any and all degrees to start to maybe consider. I think, sure you can.
There is lots of emotion that's brought forth in writing and literature and reading, but I do think that audio brings it out in another level. And for nursing, whether it's a podcast, on whether it's more objective with facts and procedure, and this is how you do this and, you know, tools. I do think it would be really beneficial for someone like a nurse who's in school that's going to be working directly with people who need a lot of empathy and need a lot of emotional connection. To be able to potentially engage with something like that through a podcast, I think could be really beneficial because, yeah, I think there's a lot of emotion and connection to be had. I've cried several times listening to a podcast, not because I know them, not because I even connect necessarily with the story, but from a human connection. And that empathy, I feel that. And I think that any and all degrees, whether you're in nursing, whether you're in business, whether you're in, you know, anthropology or astronomy, like, you're always going to be dealing with people. And I think that would be really important for other degrees to kind of expose students to.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: Yeah, the human. I think the human voice holds a lot of power within it. And even just experience wise, like, you know, nursing student, like, we keep getting caught on nursing students. Like, if, like, them listening to patient experiences, right. Doctor experiences, stuff like that. Like, I think even in business, like CEO or, like, the garbage man experience like that could be massive in just standardizing across industries. Like, what's going on?
[00:39:14] Speaker A: What you're kind of getting at is, like, even those degrees that are maybe traditionally not seen as creative could still benefit from this very creative medium.
[00:39:23] Speaker E: Definitely really kind of help lots of people kind of, you know, like, grapple with how they feel in a very inherently high stress environment like university. I just feel like, you know, kind of just experiencing something like this in, like, a very powerful, like, medium such as the human voice that ultimately has helped me, you know, kind of be more honest with myself about, you know, how I feel about certain things.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: I'm wondering, having obviously been through many classes that have assigned readings, gone through a class with assigned listenings, and obviously you have your bias in being journalism students, but I'm wondering what would be your ideal mix, like, if you were to think about your homework, right? Do you want a mix of assigned listenings as well as readings? What might be a time or a scenario where you'd want a reading over a listening? And sort of, you know, if you were to think about, I want to say, your education in a broader spectrum. I'm seeing this imagining profs being kind of interested in this, right? What would be the ideal scenario that would help reduce stress, knowing that you have to actually do work, right. That is part of being at university. But what would be the ideal mix? Or what might that look like to you? And it might be an example or just an illustration. It doesn't have to be a big, long plan.
[00:40:39] Speaker C: I think writing readings are important. You need them to reference and go back and have information solidly in front of you, right. But I think there should be readings with alternate means of digestion. You know, so what, you have something on something and then you get videos attached to it that just YouTube videos explaining it and even just the concepts, stuff like that. Like, I find for me, even like in the comm classes and stuff going back, I struggle to intake those theories like, I'm going back and I'm watching YouTube videos on just someone explaining it to me, because I just can't. And I can't do that in class either. There's too many people around you. This is too much, right? So I think for that, just having outside resources where you can still get everything you need along with the writing, even a podcast, whether it be whatever it be, would be very beneficial.
[00:41:34] Speaker E: For me, personally, I can definitely understand that there are certain things that can't be translated into an audio format, and there's also things that don't really work well as a reading. But kind of calling back to one of my earlier points, like certain things, like older books, like older philosophy books, like the Bible, maybe older translations of Plato's Republic. Maybe you're reading Dante's Inferno, maybe you're reading Shakespeare. That is really hard to read old English like that. That is really hard to digest.
You know, maybe some people are more conducive to that. Other people's may not be and, you know, like that, but, you know, kind of just like forcing everyone to do the same thing and, you know, read the same material, that ultimately really kind of degrades the quality of the discussion you may have afterwards because, you know, you'll have people that really connected with what that reading was and more people who didn't, who ultimately will not contribute to the discussion or won't contribute to it as. As well.
[00:42:38] Speaker D: I don't necessarily think it's a matter of taking away certain readings or being like, you know, we're gonna cut our readings in half and then replace them with podcasts. I think that they can be looked at to facilitate the learning and enhance the learning in a way that's, you know, in a different format and engaging, because I think professors may come back and say, well, there are no podcasts on this thing in law or this type of procedure in the medical field or whatever. Well, that's great, but those can be the readings. But there are podcasts, I'm sure, that can enhance that learning and be delivered once a week at the beginning of the week or at the end of the week and say on the weekend.
If you want to listen to this podcast, we can discuss it at the beginning of class. And it's a relief from maybe the more academic side of degrees that maybe are less creative and more academic. It adds a level of interest and intrigue. And I know not everyone enjoys a podcast, but I do think naturally, once you start to engage more with anything, the more, you know, unless it's like the same thing over and over again. It's mundane, but I think it does spark interest and curiosity. So I think, yeah, it's not a matter of saying, well, we're not going to make that a reading or it has to be something that's accessible in a reading format. And if it's not in an ebook, well, we're not going to an e book. But like if there's not an audiobook available, we're not going to assign it, but rather looking at ways where podcasting can enhance the learning in fields where there may not be as many opportunities for them to be the learning itself.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: That was a focus group discussion of how podcasts can act as an alternative to reading assignments which enhance students learning. Featuring Mount Royal University journalism students Emma Miller, Sean Gillanders and Ava Freeh, along with CPI co director Meg Wilcox and myself Kelsey Arnott, wed like to thank all the participants for sharing their time and thoughts with us.
The Community podcast initiative at Mount Royal University focuses on audio storytelling as a way to better include underrepresented voices. You can learn more and listen to all our shows at the podcaststudio CA or find us on social media at Communitypod YYC.
